Nedovršena utrvda između Trsata i Orehovice

[elvis]

Deutsch: Ringstände.
English: A Tobruk or Ringstand is a type of small concrete bunker, with a machine gun position, which was built by the Germans in late 1944, around the Meuse (River Maas) area, and elsewhere on the Atlantic Wall.
Italiano: Il Tobruk, piccola struttura difensiva, un piccolo bunker.

The term “Tobruk” was the Allied slang for a type of German fortification called a Ringstände. These were generally light machine gun bunkers with a 360 degree field of fire and no overhead protection.

Although holding only a single person, they would normally be linked together by trenches into a larger defensive position called a Widerstandnest or resistance nest.

Ringstände could be found in many locations other than the Siegfried Line, most famously perhaps on the Normandy beachhead.

It is likely that the term “Tobruk” derived from allied encounters with positions created by the Italians in the defensive perimeter around the port of Tobruk in North Africa. These positions were first formed of concrete drainage pipe inserted into the ground vertically, with the opening level with the ground and without any protection over-head.

[elvis]

They were named after the formidable cement fortifications which formed a 28-mile-long defensive perimeter around Tobruk in Libya. These defensive strong points were built by the Italians in the late 1920s. In 1911 the Kingdom of Italy invaded the country which had been a possession of the Ottoman Empire. In Cyrenaica (northeastern Libya) Ottoman holdouts banned together with a local Muslim Senussi tribal order to fight Italian colonization efforts. Initially Italian control of the country was primarily based along the coastal areas of the country and the fixed fortifications found around Tobruk were among Italy’s first attempts to secure the coastal areas before moving into the Libyan interior to crush any and all resistance to Italian control.

The Italians constructed a system of large and small defensive dugouts set into the ground in a zig-zag pattern with the larger oval shaped dugout forming the outer-most section of the perimeter with the less substantial smaller dugouts forming the inner perimeter. An extensive array of serpentine barbed wire was laid down between these fortifications giving the city a decent level of security from marauding Senussi attacks. Soldiers stationed in the larger dugouts could lay down enfilading fire to any attacker that attempted to breach the perimeter. If this failed to stop the attack soldiers in the smaller dugouts would have a shot at stopping the assault. If this proved unsuccessful it would be up to whatever garrison forces were deployed within the perimeter.

When the Allies reached the Siegfried Line in the early fall of 1944 the British likened some of the line’s cement emplacements to those surrounding Tobruk (a city that gave them a lot of heartburn two years earlier) and referred to them as such.

BELOW: A schematic of the larger cement built defensive dugouts forming Tobruk’s outer perimeter. Each of the larger cement-built dugouts had a system of recessed artillery stations, gun emplacements, and crawl trenches. A fully manned dugout averaged about 20 to 25 soldiers. In front of these dugouts an anti-tank ditch was carved into the hard desert terrain which varied in depth depending on the location.



https://www.quora.com/In-World-War-II-why-were-the-concrete-dugouts-on-the-Siegfried-Line-called-Tobruks

[lappino]

А jа већ заборавио да jе енглески службени jезик форума... 

[lappino]

Koja je utvrda br. 26, nije mi poznata iz ovog opisa?

Također nisu li tobruke izmislili Talijani i da su prvotno bili namjenjeni za tenkovske kupole? Kupola na ovim tobrucima je bila od francuskog tenka Renault R35, moguće da su ih Talijani nabavili u međuratnom razdoblju ili su ih Njemci predali Talijanima nakon invazije na Francusku, pošto je taj tenk bio gotovo beskoristan pred kraj rata vjerovatno su odlučili iskoristiti kupole za tobruke.

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Utvrda br. 26, odnosno položaj u kaverni uz Lujzijanu, otprilike crveno označeni sektori djelovanja puškarnica, s ulazom s riječke strane.

Malo dalje prema Rijeci je prema planu trebao biti još jedan položaj u Kaverni, ali ne znam točnu lokaciju.

[Daluka]

Malo dalje prema Rijeci je prema planu trebao biti još jedan položaj u Kaverni, ali ne znam točnu lokaciju.

160 - 180 m od kolničkog traka zaobilaznice, izbočina drugog desnog zavoja.
Put za doć iznad tunelskoh cijevi.

[Lijo]

Koja je utvrda br. 26, nije mi poznata iz ovog opisa?

Također nisu li tobruke izmislili Talijani i da su prvotno bili namjenjeni za tenkovske kupole? Kupola na ovim tobrucima je bila od francuskog tenka Renault R35, moguće da su ih Talijani nabavili u međuratnom razdoblju ili su ih Njemci predali Talijanima nakon invazije na Francusku, pošto je taj tenk bio gotovo beskoristan pred kraj rata vjerovatno su odlučili iskoristiti kupole za tobruke.

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Utvrda br. 26, odnosno položaj u kaverni uz Lujzijanu, otprilike crveno označeni sektori djelovanja puškarnica, s ulazom s riječke strane.

Malo dalje prema Rijeci je prema planu trebao biti još jedan položaj u Kaverni, ali ne znam točnu lokaciju.

Nisam imao pojma za ovo, onda ćemo i to na terenu pogledati uskoro

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[Lijo]

Malo dalje prema Rijeci je prema planu trebao biti još jedan položaj u Kaverni, ali ne znam točnu lokaciju.

160 - 180 m od kolničkog traka zaobilaznice, izbočina drugog desnog zavoja.
Put za doć iznad tunelskoh cijevi.

Gdje bi to bilo otprilike na karti? Možda budemo uskoro išli na provjeru na terenu pa da usput uz ove tobruke potražimo i to

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