Savezničke letačke misije - PGŽ

[elvis]

Ukupno vreme letenja: 6 sati
Poleteli: 15.50 čas.
Sleteli: 17.20 čas.

Ukupno vreme letenja: 5 sati 20 min
Poleteli: 15.20 čas.
Sleteli 16.40 „

Malo mi matematika ne štima? 

[zokxy]

Sve štima - uzmi da su letjela 4 aviona, za svaki od njih zbroji pojedinačno vrijeme letenja i ukupna cifra daje to vrijeme - dakle UKUPNO vrijeme letenja! 

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Na neki način su još otvoreni datumi 01.03. ,14.04. i 15.04., za 19.04. imamo podatak o bombardiranju I i II eskadrile JA.
Iz dokumenata je vidljivo da je i 18.04. avijacija bila aktivna nad Rijekom, a ima još nekih datuma koji u kronikama nisu spomenuti.

Što pišu o savezničkim bombardiranjima u knjizi "Oslobodilački pohod na Trst"?

[elvis]

Sve štima - uzmi da su letjela 4 aviona, za svaki od njih zbroji pojedinačno

 

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Podaci o bombardiranjima koji se mogu pronaći na,  http://www.aircrewremembered.com/USAAFCombatOperations/ tumače se malo na pogrešan način, ako je neko mjesto navedeno ne znači automatski da je i bilo meta napada.
Pored glavnog cilja misije navedeni su i alternativni ciljevi.

Misije USAF za 1945. u kojima se spominje Fiume - Rijeka, zeleno potvrđeno:

SUNDAY, 21 JANUARY 1945

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
   170 B-17s bomb the Lobau and Schweehat oil refineries at Vienna, Austria;
131 P-51s and P-38s provide support. 43 P-38s bomb an oil refinery at Fiume,
Italy. Other fighters escort reconnaissance missions and accompany
supply-dropping operations to Yugoslavia.

THURSDAY, 15 FEBRUARY 1945

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
   In Austria, 650+ B-24s and B-17s bomb 5 station freight yards, SE goods
depot, Korneuburg oil refinery, and Vienna/Floridsdorf, Matzleinsdorf, and
Penzing marshalling yards all in the Vienna area, plus marshalling yards at
Klagenfurt, Wiener-Neustadt and Graz, the Graz ordnance depot, shipyards in
Fiume, Italy and scattered targets of opportunity are also hit; fighters escort
the bombers and fly reconnaissance and reconnaissance escort missions.


SATURDAY, 17 FEBRUARY 1945

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
   About 500 B-17s and B-24s attack the marshalling yard, station, and benzol
plant at Linz, steel works at Judenburg, tank works at Steyr and Sankt
Valentin, marshalling yards at Graz, Wels, Bruck an der Mur, and Villach,
Austria; plus shipyards and harbors at Fiume and Trieste, Italy, and Pula,
Yugoslavia. P-38s and P-51s escort the bombers, fly reconnaissance missions,
and supply drops, strafe rail lines in the Vienna-Linz, Austria area and
aircraft at Ardning and Grafenstein Austria, and fly weather and photo
reconnaissance.


MONDAY, 19 FEBRUARY 1945

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
   During the night of 18/19 Feb, 11 B-24s drop supplies in N Italy. In Austria
during the day almost 500 B-24s and B-17s, escorted by about 220 P-51s and
P-38s, bomb 2 marshalling yards and the S station area in Vienna, marshalling
yards at Klagenfurt, Graz, and Bruck an der Mur; marshalling yards at Maribor,
Yugoslavia; shipyards in Fiume, Italy; and the Pula, Yugoslavia harbor and
military installations. In Austria, 51 P-51s strafe rail and river traffic and
airfields between Linz and Vienna and in the Graz area; other P-51s and P-38s
fly escort and reconnaissance missions.


TUESDAY, 20 FEBRUARY 1945

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
   520+ B-17s, with fighter escort, and B-24s bomb the Lobau, Vienna and
Schwechat, Austria oil refineries and Floridsdorf marshalling yard at Vienna,
steel works at Kapfenberg, Austria, harbor at Pula, Yugoslavia, and shipyards
at Trieste and Fiume, Italy.


WEDNESDAY, 21 FEBRUARY 1945

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
   During the night of 20/21 Feb, 1 B-17 and 13 B-24s drop supplies in N Italy.
During the day 500+ B-17s and B-24s with fighter escorts bomb Vienna, Austria
railroad targets (C yards, S station, and Matzleinsdorf marshalling yard),
marshalling yards at Bruck an der Mur, Wiener-Neustadt, and Zeltweg, Austria,
and Sopron, Hungary, and shipyards at Trieste and Fiume, Italy. HQ 1st Fighter
Group moves from Vincenzo Airfield to Salsola Airfield, Italy and the
detachment of the 27th Fighter Squadron ceases operating from Vincenzo and
returns to base at Salsola with P-38s.

Primjeri zapovijedi glavnog cilja i alternativnog

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19.02.45.
765. BOMBARDMENT SQUADRON (H)
461. BOMBARDMENT GROUP (H)

February 19.
  Combat operations were resumed with a mixed up affair that found only
three out of the seven squadron aircraft briefed to bomb Vienna, Austria, actually hitting
that target.  One airplane returned early; others got separated in cloud formations and two
attacked Fiume shipyards, a briefed alternate.  One ship attached itself to a flight of the
451st Bomb Group and bombed a railroad junction southwest of Vienna.  Ship #35
piloted by Lt. Michaelis failed to return from the mission.  Hope was expressed that he
had landed at Vis, but no definite word on him was received.  The group administrative
inspector was in the orderly room in the afternoon to hear complaints of any member of
the organization.  No one made an appearance to register a “gripe”.

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20.02.45
461^st BOMBARDMENT GROUP
February 20.
  Seven squadron aircraft left Torretta Field to bomb enemy installations at
Bolzano, Italy.  However the ships never reached the primary objective, but instead
dropped their explosives on harbor installations at Fiume.  Lt. Michaelis’ crew that had
failed to return from the sortie to Vienna on the previous day returned to the squadron.
They had spent the night at Vis.

Mission No. 179, 20 February 1945 – Fiume Shipyards, Italy
Thick cirrus at the head of the Adriatic with tops above 23,000 feet compelled the
Group leader, Major Mixson, to abandon the Bolzano Marshalling Yard, Italy, as a
primary target on 20 February 1945.  The second alternate target, the shipyards at Fiume,
Italy, was bombed visually for a score of 37.3 per cent.  The main concentration of bombs
fell in the built-up area near the docks with hits on the docks, warehouses, and harbor
jetty.  This mission resulted in three cases of frostbite, an unusual experience for the
flying personnel of this Group.

i drugi

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[...]
 plus shipyards and harbors at Fiume and Trieste, Italy, and Pula,Yugoslavia.
[...]
 shipyards in Fiume, Italy; and the Pula, Yugoslavia harbor and military installations.
[...]
 harbor at Pula, Yugoslavia, and shipyards at Trieste and Fiume, Italy.
[...]

Zar nije Pula u Jugoslaviju došla kada i Rijeka/Fiume? 

[zokxy]

Malo su falili države
Ili su već onda riješili Pulu predati Jugi

[Daluka]

Napad 02. 03. 1945. do sada nije nigdje zabilježen.
Prilikom izvođenja borbene misije broj 187. devet bombardera 461^st bombarderske grupe bombardiralo Rijeku, Valjda su se izgubili pa greškom ispustili tovar, jer u izvješćima pojedinačnih bombarderskih skupina to nije navedeno

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Drugi mjesec 45. je po svemu sudeći bio mjesec u kome je izvedeno najviše napada na Rijeku, pored USAAF i RAF je bio aktivan.

[lappino]

Napad 02. 03. 1945. do sada nije nigdje zabilježen.
Prilikom izvođenja borbene misije broj 187. devet bombardera 461^st bombarderske grupe bombardiralo Rijeku, Valjda su se izgubili pa greškom ispustili tovar, jer u izvješćima pojedinačnih bombarderskih skupina to nije navedeno

Možda zato što se stvarno nikad nije dogodio.

Ne bi bilo prvi puta da pišu svašta po izvještajima, kao npr. kad su bombardirali "željezničko čvorište u Zadru". 1944. godine, je li.

[Daluka]

Napad 02. 03. 1945. do sada nije nigdje zabilježen.
Prilikom izvođenja borbene misije broj 187. devet bombardera 461^st bombarderske grupe bombardiralo Rijeku, Valjda su se izgubili pa greškom ispustili tovar, jer u izvješćima pojedinačnih bombarderskih skupina to nije navedeno

Možda zato što se stvarno nikad nije dogodio.

Možda.
Koji bi relevantan podatak bio za 01. 03. 1945., dali je taj podatak točan samo zato što ga je napisao Franco Marinari, a nigdje drugdje se nemože pronaći?
Dali postoji mogućnost da je Marinari pogriješio datum?

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Puno puta se govori i poziva na Davis liste bombardiranja, tako za Rijeku u njima imamo:

AF značenje:
 8 = US Eighth Air Force (United Kingdom)
 9 = US Ninth Air Force (North Africa only)
 12 = US Twelfth Air Force (November 1942–October 1943)
 15 = US Fifteenth Air Force (Italy)
 BC = RAF Bomber Command (United Kingdom)
 205 = RAF 205 Group (North Africa and Italy)

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Rijeka, 17. 02. 1945.